When devotees smear a Mahajana

Srila Prabhupada: "We should not remain mūḍha-dṛśā (foolish observer). We should follow the mahājanas and the sādhus, śāstra." [---] "Mahājano yena gataḥ so panthāḥ. Then you accept the mahājana. Mahājana means following the paramparā system". "According to Vedic system, there are twelve mahājanas: svayambhūr nāradaḥ śambhuḥ kumāraḥ kapilo manuḥ, janako bhīṣmaḥ and vaiyāsakir vayam."

Mahabharata is a masterpiece of literature. The events that unfolded during the game of dice seem to be part of another world. Morality and virtue appear to have already lost much of their value. It is as if the sacrifice of Daksha described in the Srimad-Bhagavatam had been renewed. Even today, the same irregularities are taking place before our eyes, without anyone being able to oppose them. The game of dice brings many questions to our minds…

Paravidya Das wrote on Vedic Forum:  "Gbc's, gurus, sannyasis and other leaders of the noble house of iskcon, who do not protest at the mistreatment or abuse of children, or anyone for that matter, lose respects of the general community of vaisnavas, in a quiet way. Vidura mahasayi was not afraid to speak up of abuse and injustice meted out to Draupadi devi, whereas others, even the great Bhismadeva was, being afraid of * being scorned by the other Kuru members. Sri Vidura was not. He was in the right and gained the respects of all righteous persons. To not protest at the mistreatment of the vulnerable is a great sin. (Garuda Purana.)" (The underlinings are mine.)

I wrote back: "Again,* Bhismadeva is described as a Mahajana in the Bhagavad gita. How, then, he is qualified now as a nonsense? Did I missed something? 😕"

"I never said he was a nonsense", was his reply. Well, that's what I am reading. Then he writes to somebody else; "The answer was given by Mahajana Bhismadeva himself, when lying on his deathbed. When he started to speak on religious principles, Sri Draupadi was also present, she started smirking, Bhismadeva asked why, she said because at the time of her abuse, he did nothing and now you are speaking wise words, isn't, this a bit hypercritical, Bhismadeva admitted his fault at that time and said that he was contaminated by the food he ate from Duryodhana and others, which clouded his judgement and mind. He then spoke about the dangers of eating foodstuffs cooked by materialists." ▪︎

* I have said it many times on the forum. They have the habit to criticize Bhismadev's conduct. Somehow or other, Paravidya is encouraging the readers to loose respect for him.. 

One devotee, Errol Andrews, takes his defense.  (I put his letter as an appendices.)

Paravidya is repeating a statement that is recurrent on the forum; i.e. Bhismadev was a type similar to gurus and sannyasis in ISKCON; keeping silent in front of abuses (in his first paragraph). The members pretend that Bhismadev is a “sinner”, according to Garuda Purana. This is nonsense. Bhismadev has done all he could to protect the Pandavas. On his deathbed, by humility he told Draupadi that he should have helped her. —That is humility. 

Bhismadev didn't make any mistake. Yudhiṣṭhira did. And a huge one! Arjuna should have protected his wife, it was not Bhisma's business to do so. Don’t you see on which side is the immoral act! Api cet su-duracaro. We should not find fault in the conduct of great devotees. ”We”... We are not devotees, we aspire to become one of them. Therefore, we don't insult a Mahajana, thinking we are qualified to judge him. Asking questions to understand is another thing. Otherwise, we fall in the category of mūḍha-dṛśā.

Sorry to differ strongly with you; Krishna is the Supreme God, he is never bewildered or afraid as you declare. I repeat myself, Bhisma was never afraid of anyone, not even of Shiva. 

Paravidya could have gently responded to my intervention, and we would certainly have had a constructive exchange. But, instead, he made fun of me. He did not apologize when I enquired from him for the reason of mocking me. Prabhupada taught us that devotees are gentlemen. They don't make fun of others when they try to understand something, even if their questions go against the trend.

I am not an ISKCON devotee. I was. Now, I think for myself. There are things that Prabhupada said which are not relevant for preaching and to conduct our lives. A long time ago, I wrote and said to all devotees with an open mind, who wanted to hear my doubts, that these regulative principles will lead us to nowhere. Only hypocrites pretend that members forming a society, be it highly transcendental, can follow them. Most devotees don't even chant their 16 rounds daily, it includes sannyasis and gurus. They ignore me. They ignore those who cannot be groomed. 

No! To answer your question, Bhisma did not go against Krishna's will. "Mahājana means following the paramparā system." That is why he is listed as one of the 12 Mahajanas in BG.

Arjuna did not surrender to Krishna the way you described it. Again and again he had doubts. That is because he was not willing to hurt Bhismadev. Krishna had to enter into a great wrath to make him decide to do so. (Where we see that doubts are inherent in the thoughts of a civilized man.)

Thank you again for your post to me. Not many devotees do that. In fact, it is rare. I think our ideas are too far apart from mine that we can come to an agreement. But at least we have said what we have to say. May God protect you. Hare Krishna.  (He never acknowledged my answer.)

■

Yes, Bhismadev is greater than Krishna!

Reading from a website, the author, Romapada Swami, is paraphrasing the SB and Prabhupada: "Yudhisthira was feeling responsible for the killing of so many people. He thought that for him to become the king so many had died. The same argument that Arjuna was giving before the Kuruksetra battle, Yudhisthira was feeling after the battle. “So many wives are now without husbands, so many children are now without fathers, so many persons are now without protectors – so that I can become king.” So many persons tried to pacify Yudhisthira and no one could pacify him. Even Krishna could not pacify Yudhisthira — just so that Bhismadeva could pacify Yudhisthira. “Just see, he is greater than Me!” That is Krishna’s wish — that is Krishna."

■

This morning, I was listening to Srila Prabhupada on Balarama. It is his appearance day. He insisted on the fact that he is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He said nothing about Him being the friend of Duryodhana, up to the end of his demonic life.

Just something to “ruminate” like Nietzsches would say.

Appendices, a letter from Errol Andrews.

Interesting statements you have made, and good to reflect on them. There are different ways to look at or understand a subject. Understandings seemingly opposing each other can both be still right.

I don't see anything wrong with the statement of Paravidya Rodgers, that Bhismadeva being afraid to intervene. Even Krishna can sometimes be temporarily bewildered or afraid, and He is the Surpreme Personality of Godhead.

Are you stating that a Mahayana is more fearless than Krishna?

There are different layers to the understanding of the Srimad Bhagavatam, we should be humble not to pretend to be all knowing. Understanding is given by Srila Prabhupada and Krishna's mercy, to his followers, ISKCON devotees. 

"Should Mahajana be respected as best spiritual authority or should ISKCON followers look down on him because he didn't not intervene during this pastime?"

The authority of ISKCON is and always will be Srila Prabhupada. No matter what the cheaters within and without the movement do, this will never change. When choosing between the instructions of a Mahajana or Srila Prabhupada, we the followers of Srila Prabhupada must always chose Srila Prabhupada, he is our highest authority on spiritual matters.

"Never someone born as a mleccha insults a character such Bhismadev. "

Do you consider faults in devotees, because they were born as mleccha?

Which authority are you following who teaches that it is good to remind a devotee that in his past(this) life, he was mleccha?

There was this group of people looking down on others, how much they are mleccha and should be avoided, then they came to ask for Laksmi to build temple. They were reminded, how they avoid the "mleccha"devotee, and thus granted no Laksmi from the "mleccha" group, go and find the pure non mleccha to get donations. ( A valuable lesson).

"If Bhisma wanted to go against Krishna's will, he could have finished the whole Kaurava dynasty."

You really think this to be a fact, that Bhisma can go against Krishna's will, and even worse finish the whole Kaurava dynasty?

I think this is wishful thinking and a misunderstanding of the teachings of the Bhagavatam, which can easily occur when we not remain humble. It sheds a different light on your previous statements.

The battle at Kurkusetra was between te Kauravas and the Pandavas, one trying to destroy the other, and Krishna's desire for the Pandavas to rule, prevealed.

When Arjuna wanted to go against the will of Krishna on the battlefield, Krishna explained to him that Krishna's desires will be done, whether Arjuna participates or not. It was however more beneficial for Arjuna to follow Krishna's desires and Instructions. Arjuna composed himself and surrender to Krishna's will, proceeded to fight, family, teachers and friends and became victorious against the odds. ■