Robots do not doubt. (About the parampara system)

— I told you, my dear Mayesvara, why I believe the ritvik system is better than the present one, which is obsolete. You didn't react.

That was bizarre, indeed, he is challenging and insulting the ritviks, but when I tell him that the ritvik theory is more adapted to the present situation, he ignores my postulate. He kept asking me what the question was...

Finally, he decides to deal with me. What an honor! 

He says: What you "Believe" is a better paradigm then the one you claim is obsolete, is where the problem is. What you believe is irrelevant because beliefs change.  

Woah! Mayesvara speaks only the truth. He knows Krishna like the pure devotee knows Him. He doesn't believe. Since he joined Krishna consciousness, he stopped believing. 

I was not able to get some information about his mental state on the subject. It sounded like a dogmatic teacher who was angry because his student had personal ideas different from his. 

The reality is that I am not his student, and I never claimed to be. In fact, he didn't want to argue as equals; he wanted me to ask questions for him to answer. And that I accept the conclusion.

Mayesvara did not expect to face a devotee who thinks by himself. That is nonsense according to him, and he won't put on gloves to tell me. See his reasoning:

Syllogism of servitude to authority:

"What you believe is irrelevant because beliefs change", he rebuked me. For half a century I believed that Krishna is God and he says it is irrelevant…

Mayesvara Prabhu is certainly not a neophyte. He joined during the early 70s. Therefore, he knows that thousands of devotees have left the movement and many of them don't believe any more that Krishna is Param Brahma, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. For a few years they worshiped Krishna as God, but they stopped the practice. How does he explain that if Krishna is not a belief? They have accepted Krishna as the supreme God, then they have rejected this idea. It means it was a belief for them.

I couldn't discuss this peacefully with him, since he was so upset by the course of the conversation. I tried to remain cordial as much as possible. I never had an interaction with him before, and he does not know me at all, so I don't understand his attitude. An older devotee is supposed to control his emotion, especially during a debate. Is it not? They say we should respect all vaishnavas, it doesn’t not matter what party they belong to.

Incidentally, I read this morning Narayana Maharaj pointing to this conduct where people take sides with those who share the same ideas: "Nowadays Vaisnava-aparadh is not committed by mistake but knowingly. —That is their party, this is my party— Bhakta’s have no party. In which party is Naradji? In which party is Sukadev Gosvami? This is our party and they are all in our party. Wherever a Bhakta is performing Harinam, wherever Harinam is done and whoever does Harinam and takes shelter of sad-guru, they are all in my party."

It doesn’t matter which party a vaishnava belongs to, if we want to know the truth or progress in our understanding. We have to discuss like well behaved persons. Groups, parties, sects or communities are natural social phenomena, be it transcendental... (like ISKCON pretents to be). Diversity is an antidote to single thought. Right, it does not matter which party someone belongs to, however, it is necessary to know where from someone is talking for the debate to progress without ambiguity. 

We see it with Mayesvara, he does not support that someone think independently of the ISKCON doxa. In that sense, he is a real Prabhupada's man, one who follows strictly Srila Prabhupada's words, without any other consideration. To think independently is not possible if you belong to ISKCON, the Transcendental Party. There must be some merit in parroting his guru, but we have to be impeccable in our dealing with other vaishnavas.

It is OK for a devotee to think like the Transcendental Party wants you to think and to be Prabhupada's man, especially if you are his disciple. Being a representative of Srila Prabhupada's mission is a glorious position that we can be proud of, but why lose his temper when someone else is thinking outside the box? Why can't the disciple represent Srila Prabhupada in a brahmanical way?

—Peacefulness, self-control, austerity, purity, tolerance, honesty, wisdom, knowledge, and religiousness, these are the qualities by which the brahmanas work.— BG.

That will be very much appreciated. Then, we can say he is a vaisnava, he is practicing bhakti-yoga, the ultimate yoga.

From experience, Mayesvara should have learned that it is an utopia that Prabhupada's followers will form a unique party, and not a sect. Historically, such utopia has always turned out extremely cruel. It has become a long practice in our movement to weaponize the principles of unity and fidelity to the guru, thus forcing the devotees from thinking by themselves. We believe that giving up our tiny independence to serve the will of the guru is the only path for a civilization to succeed. Such utopia never happened in the past and will not in the future. Diversity in unity is the panacea, and not one at the expense of the other.

This morning I was listening to Srila Prabhupada. Right from the beginning of his lecture he said: "Our mission is to find out the original cause. That is scientific research. All the scientists are trying to find out the original cause. That is the advancement of education. They are analyzing, one after another. But till now, they could not find it out. Big, big scientists have tried, but they could not... Only theory: "This is the original cause. But we do not depend on theories. We depend on the Vedic conclusion. We do not require to make any research."

When I heard this, my thoughts went to Mayesvara. Does he really think that researchs are not required, as Prabhupada is saying it here? He may depend on Vedic conclusion and make no research, that's alright. In another situation Srila Prabhupada will ask his disciples to start some researchs about the Universe so that we can build a planetarium in Mayapur. Is it not? Srila Prabhupada said we must implement varnashrama-dharma. How can we do that without research? Seriously...

Robots do not doubt. Does Mayesvara have a better truth for Vedic sources because he is following Srila Prabhupada like his shadow? He wrote: "What you believe is irrelevant because beliefs change. The fact is Krishna set up the Parampara system for very pragmatic reasons and it DOES NOT CHANGE."

It's a valid argument, but why does he need to shout this way to express it? Valid argument, but poor. What does Krishna say in the Gita on this point?

"This supreme science was thus received through the chain of disciplic succession, and the saintly kings understood it in that way. But in course of time the succession was broken, and therefore the science as it is appears to be lost." BG. 4.2

Mayesvara doesn't doubt the efficacité of the parampara system, although it is written black on white that Krishna says "the succession was broken." He doesn't take into account that the present gurus like BB Govinda Swami, Gopal Krishna Swami or Satsvarupa, just to name a few of them, are not the kind of guru Krishna was mentioning while setting up the parampara.

By now I can understand that he has no intention to hear me and respect whatever intelligence I display. He goes on: "Thus the RtVik Charade appeals to those who are not ready to surrender their false ego and serve under personal guidance. It also attracts contemptuous individuals and wounded souls who are easily confused by all the propaganda which, for the most part, is promoted by those who have an envious nature or hate ISKCON. Hopefully you do not fall into that category and will change your position, as many others have, after the conditioning of RtVik smoke clears out of the brain."

"Believing" means I think for myself and don't just repeat what I read or hear. I am quite astonished by your posture on psychology where doubt is seen as an obstacle to progress. It is normal to believe, it is part of life. Someone who doesn't believe is a robot or an animal. There are right beliefs and wrong beliefs. I believe that Krishna is the supreme personality of Godhead. I always believed in God, since I was born, so to speak. This belief is not changing, it is faith in my case, like an "instinct". It may be irrelevant to you, not to me. Krishna doesn't change the Parampara, but the Parampara gets lost. Open your eyes wide. See how neophytes in large numbers are systematically abused by gurus again and again. This is a big change from the traditional parampara that Krishna was advocating. These are my last words to you, I throw in the towel. Hare Krishna. 

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